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3, 2, 1. Once again, your podcast app is serving up the Mission Story Slam podcast, which is brought to you by PWP Video. I'm Michael Schweissheimer. I'm the executive producer at PWP Video, the Mission Story Slam, and I'm the guy who will always pick up a lucky penny. Speaking of good luck, I have great news for you.

Mission Story Slam 10 is just around the corner on the evening of Tuesday, June 4th. The theme is the message and tickets are on sale now. So come back to our new home at National Mechanics with me. You can grab tickets at missionstorieslam. org. So if you were with us last time, you'll know that this is the second part of my conversation with Elizabeth Guman and Judy Wicks.

You'll also know what amazing leaders and pivotal figures they both are in the Philadelphia sustainable business ecosystem. And if this is all news to you, go back one episode and listen to part one. Then come back and join us here to remind you, Elizabeth shared her story of wanting more from her work in the business world, which led her and her partner to stumble across corporate social responsibility as a concept.

And that led her to learning about Judy Wicks and the work she was doing with the white dog cafe. That work led to the creation of the sustainable business network of greater Philadelphia and many other entities. So in part two, we're going to talk about the future of sustainability and the B Corp movement.

And I asked Judy how she got involved with Andrew Kosoi, Bart Houlihan, and Jake Cohen Gilbert at B Lab.

Well, I was introduced to, to Jay, um, and then later Bart, uh, by Hal Tauszig, um, and he's passed away now. He's the founder of Untours, um, which is a travel business, unusual travel business where he donates all the profits of his business to his foundation, the Untours Foundation.

Um, and, um, He was an inspiration to me, and if I had a mentor, I would say it would be Al. It's not the traditional sense, but he, he, I'd look to him. It was from him that I learned about living, paying a living wage and many other things that he implemented that I admired. Um, so he brought Jay to me and at first I thought, you know, who's this guy, he had a sporting business, you know, uh, and, um, I don't really, I'm not interested in sports and I really, I didn't, uh, pay that much attention at first.

And then how became, uh, the first B Corp and then I became the second B Corp and, um, Jay and, and Bart, um, had the, the, the signing of the declaration of interdependence, uh, at the white dog. Uh, and Hal and I were the first to sign it.

You know what, Judy? I gotta be honest with you. In discussions of, like, the emergence of B Lab, I knew that, that Hal and Untours was the first B Corp.

But somehow, I never heard that you were the second and that the signing of the Declaration of Interdependence was at White Dive. It makes perfect sense, but I did not know that. Did you stay, did White Dog stay a B Corp for the remainder of the time that you had it?

Oh yeah, well, I was there, but when I sold it, it did not.

I shouldn't require that the new owner be a member of B Corp, I did require certain things of them. The tool I used for that was that I kept the name White Dog Cafe, the brand in my private ownership. So I sold them the, um, the corporation, uh, but not the brand. And then I licensed them the brand. With certain restrictions that they had to buy from local farmers.

Um, you know, they, they had to make a grandfather in all the benefits that I had given to my staff, you know, a bunch of stuff. And that's a very cool

way to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. I wish. And then it expired after 10 years, but it was able to give me control for the first 10 years and hoping that that would become part of their corporate culture.

And, uh, in hindsight, I wish I, I had, um, required them to be a big corp. I did require them to be a member of SBN. Yeah. Uh, a, um, you know, high level contributor. I don't know if it was a 500 year or whatever, um, to SBN. Um, and I, I doubt if they are now. I don't know. I mean, now they can do whatever they want and I've moved on, obviously.

Yeah, that's something that I've been putting some thought into. I mean, I'm in my early 50s and I'm starting to think about succession for my business and how do I help the people that help me build the company that I get to be proud of and the big corporate that we are and how do I make sure that that can continue for the younger members of our team who would like to stay here.

So it's, those are tough questions and I mean, I think that's part of how, from my understanding and I don't know, Everything but part of my understanding in terms of Jay and Bart's story with and one is that they were displeased with how they had to exit and that their Principles of how a good business should be run weren't able to continue in that next iteration So it seems like a story

right?

Right. I think there there needs to be different exit strategies, you know, uh for us and so that's when I Developed and I'm glad to share with others. Uh, but I, you know, I think then I think Jay asked us, right, Elizabeth, if SBN would be kind of the testing ground for B Corp.

Yeah. So I think when it started was so in, in SBN, we had, you know, kind of alternating chairs.

So I had, I was still chair and then, um, Nadia Ottawa was the co chair Um, Bart and Jay approached, um, me as co chair and said, you know, is there ways that we can, um, get word out within SBN because that's a great group of, of businesses who would be, you know, perfect for the B Corp movement. Um, and so another, like, I distinctly remember having coffee with them in a coffee shop in Westchester when they posed the idea.

You know, we went ahead and figured out ways to get the word out to the SBN members about the opportunity.

Once again, you're, by following those things that you're passionate about or have been seeking, you know, you get to be in the, you get to be in cool places at cool times.

Mm

hmm.

And I think we had an influence, um, that SBN, um, you know, with Elizabeth's leadership and, and others, we had an influence on B Corp, um, to, um, include localism, you know, in, in the, um,

Certification rubric?

Yes. You know, buying local and, and so on, and, and more place based, uh, values. So we, we definitely influenced that. And, um, I, I was suggesting, and I don't know whether they've done it or not, cause I've kind of lost track because when I tried to apply it in the white dog to really use it, uh, it didn't address enough issues that are, um, really special to food industry, for instance.

And could there be different types of B Corp certifications for different industries so that it would really ask the, the The important questions, um, you know, if you're in the food industry, where does your food come from? Are you buying from local farmers? Are the animals treated well? You know, is it organic?

You know, all those kinds of details are not in the B Corp, um, criteria, whatever, because it's too specific to an industry. Uh, and I don't know whether they ever did. Oh, they have. Oh, they have. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. They've really, they took that suggestion and, um, have built it out. Um, pretty complex. So, it's, it's, yeah,

it's powerful.

The B Impact Assessment has gotten pretty interesting. They're actually working right now on, it's the third or fourth iteration of the Impact Assessment, which will roll out in another year or two. Um, and it's going to put a lot more focus onto equity and a lot of, they've got different, uh, Sort of interest areas that even go beyond just, you know, what's your footprint or are you paying people?

Well, like it's nice It's kind of cool. I'm not saying that we're by any means moving past these things I think those are all still bedrock but but it's like that's sort of just the assumption now if someone's going to Want to try to certify as a B Corp that you're going to be looking at the multiple of your top paid to your lowest paid, and you're going to be looking at things like your impact or how you're sourcing things, but now they want to know about like, how are you actually trying to change how business is done in other ways, in terms of, uh, equity lens and things like that.

So it's pretty. Pretty exciting to see. That's,

that's fascinating. I'd love to talk to you guys more about the conference, the big conference. Cause I I'm out of the loop now that I don't have a business and I'm old, but I, I'm, I'm, I'm really curious about what's going on. Uh, so I'd love to hear, hear from you guys at some point about the conference and what's going on now.

We'll have to check your calendar for a Tuesday night, May 7th. If you want, I can, Give you a ride from Northwest Philly. We're going to get together. There's a new B Corp in Philadelphia called Sear, Sear Interactive. It's not a new company. They're a big SEO search firm, um, that just certified last year.

And they're going to host us for a B Local meeting. And we're going to talk a lot about what we learned at Champions. So,

Oh, I'd love that.

Yeah, but I'm always happy to talk to you.

So is there a be local chapter now in Philadelphia?

Yeah, we've done, um, some, some really good collaboration with SBN over the past, um, year, I would say, um, for example, in January, or was it February, the meeting that we had, we did as a joint meeting with SBN.

Um, and it was on

The voter engagement one? The voter

engagement, yeah, yeah.

SBN has a, uh, Policy person now, and we worked with, um, her name's Teresa. We worked with her and we ended up working with someone from B Lab USA, Canada, who does policy there. And we ended up with, we had seventh generation join us from the B Corp in Vermont.

We had, uh, local B Corps on our panel, um, but we talked about things that we can do in our workplaces, uh, with someone from ACLU National, but it was, it was all nonpartisan, but it was just talking about things that work, how workplaces can lead in, uh, facilitating democratic engagement. And I think it was.

It was pretty effective, and I think it's something that, um, some of the other be local chapters want to be able to replicate, particularly this year, um, to, you know, help make sure that our, our companies are doing simple things like encouraging our employees to take time off to learn how to be poll workers, or just making sure that they have time to go and vote, for goodness sakes, that they have, you know, one of the things that some of me, I'm curious if you know about this, Judy, one of the things The person from ACLU was telling all of us in that meeting was that, um, there's a lot of survey data or a lot of just factual proof that among that so many people aren't trusted these days, right?

Politicians aren't trusted, a lot of media is not trusted, but that our employers tend to be among the most trusted people like in our immediate networks. And I had, I mean, I had no idea. I just kind of surprised me that that would be such a consistent piece of polling.

That's a good thing, you know, because, you know, I think oftentimes, um, local employers bear the brunt of people's frustrations with the economy in general.

And so, um, you know, they'll attack, uh, the local owners, uh, for things that really the problem of the The larger system because they happen to be on the front lines and they know them, you know, And i've certainly felt that myself Where people, you know upset with capitalism, you know will attack me because i'm a local business owner and they happen to know me So i'm like the target.

Oh, I think I think what um what this what this information was about was, first of all, that we have a high level of trust generally, or at least a baseline, hopefully among our employees, but then particularly, I think, with value led businesses, there can also be a high level of trust with our, um, with our customers, particularly the ones who are engaged.

I mean, I know that you used to leverage that trust that you had built up with your community by having so many community events at White Dog.

Actually, that was one of the things when I sold the business that I agreed. Was so concerned about that. I felt that my customers did trust me, um, and that I wanted them to continue to trust the white dog, um, when I was gone and that's why I said, you know, that all the meat had to be, um, humanely raised the fish, uh, sustainably caught, you know, because I didn't want to betray the customers who, um, trusted the brand.

We've talked a lot about these movements that are either established and continuing, and I know you've sold the white dog, like what, what is the work that you are both doing these days? And, and Elizabeth, I guess for you that can, I know you're doing, doing like quote the work both inside and outside of strategy arts.

Um, but Judy, what are some of the, what are some of the new movements that you've been, uh, occupying yourself with these days?

Uh, well, a few things. Uh, one is the circle of aunts and uncles that I. I founded nine years ago, it's a micro loan fund, um, where we make, um, 3 percent interest loans to local entrepreneurs that, uh, don't have family and friends stage capital.

Um, you know, many of us, when we started our businesses, borrowed from our parents or aunts and uncles or grandmothers or whatever. As I did. Um, but there are entrepreneurs that don't have those resources. And so we not only provide the financial capital, but also the social capital that one advice basically, that oftentimes we get from our aunts and uncles or parents or family members or whatever, so that we, it's not just about the money, but about the relationship and, and helping the entrepreneur connect to, uh, social capital as well.

So I continue to do that. And then, um, you know, I also, um, I, I just bought it, I just moved. My daughter was sick with West Nile virus for a long time and she's now recovered, but I decided to move near her is what it boiled down to. And so I bought this property, which was just like a. I have two acres of land and it was a big lawn and I'm, I'm transforming the lawn into a meadow.

Um, and so I think of that, um, little story that somebody asked, um, you know, a social change, change leader one time, uh, what, what, what their status was. And, and the, and the guy said, well, when I was young, I wanted to change the world. Uh, now I just want to, I wanted to save the world and now I just want to save the pond in my backyard.

So that is a part of what I'm doing is to be hyper local and just save my little two acres, you know, to become an ecosystem for the, the birds and the bugs and so on. But I want to continue my work in the community. Um, and so my, my basic principle is, um, you know, that. we need to continually create the conditions for life.

Um, and that's what nature does is continually creates conditions for more life so that nature and life on earth can unfold, uh, and, and continue to become more complex and more beautiful and so on. Uh, and now human beings have stopped creating the conditions for more life. We're creating the conditions for death.

of the death of life on earth. Um, and so we need to reverse that. Um, and so here at my place, which I call the homestead, um, that the homestead, we're first of all, modeling sustainable living, you know, with, um, I haven't finished this yet, but it's going to be totally solar run place with organic vegetable gardening and rain gardens.

And Um, you know, we want to model sustainable living and then have workshops and all these things, um, you know, workshops on, you know, renewable energy, just as we started with SBN, only having a geared towards homeowners, um, zero waste and local textiles and clothing and, you know, And so, um, actually I just met yesterday with a friend to kind of brainstorm, um, the different subjects that, uh, we're going to educate around.

Um, and, uh, I'm having, um, a land blessing, um, on June 21st. It's a summer solstice, Elizabeth will be invited because I want to, to, to, to take the, a moment to, to bless the land and to communicate to the community. What we're trying to do here, what we hope to do here that we want to create the conditions for, for healthy life, not only naturalized life, but community life, uh, and our inner life.

Um, and so we're going to have programs around all three of those.

I'll leave it to you to turn your retirement homestead into a community program, uh, by demonstrating how it's done. I love it. That's perfect.

It's like, it's my new restaurant in a sense.

You You have stamped yourself with having to, uh, leverage every opportunity to, to share that knowledge and that joy you have around doing this work.

Um, Elizabeth, I'm curious about some of the stuff that you're up to.

A lot of what I'm doing is, uh, the work of running this firm. So I stepped into the managing partner role, um, two years ago. And, um, And so running strategy arts, and then I would say the kind of one of the things besides doing I'm, I'm serving, um, on the, uh, Philly B local, um, leadership team still, and that's important to me how we create community, um, there and collaborate with SBN.

We're still an SBN member. But the other thing that's really, um, kind of taking a lot of my, where I'm, I'm putting a lot of time and energy is in, um, somatic abolition work. So in our work at strategy arts, uh, we do equitable community engagement work. And in that work, um, you know, there's work about how do you do that?

conversations and, and support people around, um, racial and social equity. And that's been a big learning journey for me over the past, you know, eight years. Um, And what I learned in that process was that there's techniques and skills and content to learn in terms of how we help our client. But really the biggest, uh, lever that I have is how is, is where I need to change and especially as a, as a white person, how I need to change.

And I've really resonated with the work of, um, resma medican and, uh, somatic abolition work. And that has really supported me in how I show up at work and with my team and with clients, but also, um, I think one of the things in my life is integration. And, uh, so this integrates a lot about my own, uh, personal growth, my spiritual growth.

And, um, so that's a really important part of, of what I've been doing.

Elizabeth, I'd love to talk to you more about that because I'd like to have that be an element of her work at the Homestead. Ah, I love

that.

I'd love to talk to you about doing programs here around racial equality. Um, and, uh, yeah, so maybe there's something else we can work on together.

That would be great. I would love that.

Well, and it might help. All of us, Judy, myself, and hopefully our audience, can, I'm, I'm sure some of us are, are familiar with my grandmother's hands, or, or, it's Resma, say the name for me. Menneken. Menneken. Um, but can you give like a brief explanation of what somatic abolition work is?

So the work of somatic abolition is that the, um, the, what Resma, um, The, the kind of core belief behind it is that, that when we're trying to do healing around, uh, race, racism is that we can't just do it in our heads. That it has to be something that, that racism is embedded in our bodies and that we need to do the work, um, at, at a somatic level, which for me was completely a real stretch because I'm a very, um, You know, head person.

So the, the process of saying, you know, what is, um, there's a whole series of, of practices and techniques to do to, um, to proactively and then kind of reactively work out, um, semantically, what is, where do I need to heal? And the other thing, I think one of the reasons I was drawn to this work is because, um, because it's also really calls us to do it in community.

So similar to what I was looking for, you know, way back when, uh, you know, I wanted the community, my local community of people that care about business being a force for good. Um, you know, this, You know, the idea that, that white supremacy is not an individual thing, but a communal thing that we need to then heal, um, in a, in a communal way, which, Judy, I think, uh, fits with your vision of, of, of, um, your homestead and, and, uh, and some of the things there.

Yeah. Yeah,

absolutely. I'm, I'm really excited about this.

Well, and I'm not sure if this is connected or not, but you know, you talked about being very much a headspace person and thinking back to where we started our discussion, which was your story. One of the things that I carry from your story is you reference multiple times the, the dissonance and stuckness that you felt.

And this is going back, as you were saying, into the, to the eighties and nineties when you weren't finding that community. Absolutely. And. I don't know, the idea of, that you were aware of this living in dissonance and stuckness to me doesn't seem like a headspace thing. That seems like someone who's living in, in their, their heart and their body to have that kind of awareness.

So I'm, I'm wondering if the, the somatic evolution work brought you to that realization or if those were realizations you were having at the time and maybe you've brought language to it later. Like how does that kind of fit together, that idea of discussing that?

I would say that. But so the way you just described that, um, I would say that I've lived in my heart for a long time.

So that part resonates for me. I'm, I grew up in a faith based family. I continue to practice as a Christian. Um, and that, you know, my, my somatic abolition work is totally. Like resonates with, with how I live out those, um, values as, as, as how I live out my faith. What I was not doing is anything somatic. So that part has felt really new for me.

So I think the dissonance was because I, I knew my values. From an early age and I knew that there was a piece missing in terms of my connection around my values And that's what really resonated when I talked to Judy Judy when you just described Early on with SBN. I just I wrote down relationship based and heart based and I was like that was what I learned, you know from my dad and That's what I was looking for Um And, and I can't, I mean, I think it's so interesting when I think about how there's qualities that you and my dad have so in common and how you are such different people.

Um, but I think it's, um, so the, I think the dissonance that I was feeling was definitely a heart piece, um, and also a head piece, like, you know, really being able to see in my life that that was not something there. Yeah. So, but I've never spent a whole lot of time being in touch with, um, with my body as, uh, um, a place of healing as a place of, of, um, resource.

Um, you know, I'm, I'm really intrigued by one of the core tenets of this work is that, um, is the generational work. So I've been really spending time about my own ancestry and, and how do I, um, you know, have a, have my, my ancestors be support for me in this work and how do I pass that on to future generations.

So this might be tough, but the word somatic itself, I'm not sure, is it, do you have a definition for somatic or any ability to explain what somatic means?

To me, it's about, it's about body. So it's about, um, somatic is the, and I don't have a really good definition off the top of my head. It's tough, yeah,

I know.

Yeah, but it's the, the, you know, somatic abolition is the, um, that we can't heal, um, this in our heads, that we have to heal it in our hearts and our bodies as well. So it's, it's practices about, um, being aware of what's going on in our body and using that as signals to heal.

And some of it is also related to intergenerational Trauma that can exist in our current bodies.

Is that right? Am I getting that right?

Yeah, and the idea that that um, you know that even as white people that we are um harmed by white by white supremacy and that we carry that in our bodies and how we can use that as a lever for for being um a source for anti racism and for creating a new community of healing.

Well, let me know when you do your first workshop at the Homestead. Laughter Um, by the way, I'm sure this has to have come up for you before, Elizabeth, but to do everything about the movie, It's a Wonderful Life in relation to your father and those trips into the community and the different, Businesses and business owners he loaned money to, because it just makes me think of Jimmy Stewart when you talk about it.

It does. There are definitely, um, It's a Wonderful Life is my husband Peter's favorite movie. So we watch it every year. And I do think a lot about my dad when I watch that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Very much about, like, you know, what is a bank about? Lending money so that people like Judy can start a business and, and Put money back into the community so other people can buy houses.

Like all that. Yeah.

Does that movie come up for you at all with the circle of aunts and uncles work that you do?

Yeah. I mean, I think it's a, it's such an uplifting, uh, movie and, uh, I can see, uh, um, Jimmy Stewart being Elizabeth's dad.

You know what? I could totally see that. I think that's pretty much, I've never met your father or seen a photo.

So that is basically the photo, the photo in my mind that I have.

That's so

cool. All right. So listen, we're, we've, we've been chatting for a while and we can certainly start to bring this to an end, but I have a couple of things that I do want to ask you both about while I have you. And one of them is, you know, we talked a bit about the work that we've done and that we're doing, um, I'm very curious what your thoughts are about the, the rising generation of changemakers that we're seeing right now.

And if, um, because I feel like this, this generation of young people that are entering, um, activism or starting businesses and trying to use their businesses in a better way, um, Give me a lot of hope, but it's also very interesting to see and experience the generation in terms of like how different we are, like, you know, sometimes, sometimes that new generation is so driven or focused.

They're like, get out of my way, old guy. I've got stuff to do. So I'm just kind of curious, like some of the experiences that you're having and if you're optimistic with with this incoming generation, and, you know,

you know, I'd say I'm optimistic about them. Um, I guess my fear is that, uh, corporate control is so intense, um, and you know, I see these Young entrepreneurs struggling, um, against competition with these large corporations that, uh, have all the advantages in marketing and, you know, economy of scale and so on.

Um, so I worry for them. Um, but, um, I think that the, you know, that the next generation is more conscious than us older people about, um, equality, um, you know, the black lives matter movement. about, you know, the terrible history of the United States in terms of genocide of Native Americans and slavery, Africans and so on, is something that I think younger people are much more aware of and much more concerned about than, than, than we were.

Um, and, um, you know, I think globally, um, That young people, uh, are against war, you know, you see this, um, you know, in the demonstrations and whatnot, um, about what's going on in the Middle East, uh, that young people are very upset, um, about war, they want to see a ceasefire and not necessarily, I'm not talking about taking sides, but just being against war, taking the side of peace.

Um, that I see, uh, among young people reminds me of the sixties to some extent, uh, but unfortunately, you know, a lot of us, 60 people grew up to become, um, greedy business people, um, where, you know, and I guess the other thing is about climate change that. The younger generation is much more, I think they're mad at us.

Um, a lot of people like, um, Greta, um, you know, about our heartlessness and not doing something about climate change while there's still time and our lack of. Concern about younger people and what's going to happen to them. Um, and, um, so I think they're much more conscious. I mean, you know, younger people tend to, I'm making generalization here, but they tend to, you know, buy, use clothing a lot more than we used to.

I mean, it's not the, the status is not in having a new dress every time you go to a party now. The status is, you know, wearing the same old dress or making a home or making one or, you know, going to repairing

clothes. Yeah, I've known a lot of young people who are really into sewing and repairing or, yeah, putting, putting multiple things together into something brand new, which is really exactly,

exactly.

And I think that is just so cool. Um, and it's such an advance over, you know, our values.

I guess I, I think it's interesting how you asked the question of, you know, do you have hope? Um, I'm, I'm, um. I'm a person that chooses to have hope. So, you know, the things that you just named Judy definitely are, are You know big and I don't know feel even bigger and maybe as I get older feel even more Intense to me.

So there's a lot working against hope. So I choose hope and definitely there's I just love talking to young people and, and, um, hearing how their perspective is different. And that gives me hope that there's, you know, some of the things that you just mentioned, Judy, and then, you know, things like, um, I'm not going to work more than a 40 hour week.

And in fact, I'd like to work less. And that is just not, was not in my perspective when I started my work world and I still struggle against it. Um, And, um, yeah, so there's values there that I'm like, this is good. I'm glad because, you know, we need that kind of, um, emergence.

Look, that's part of why you're fun to hang out with, is because you choose hope.

And, um, you know, Judy, you were saying how, um, you know, we grew up into, uh, greedy business owners, but not all of us grew up into greedy business owners. Some of us just grew up into business owners.

Right, right, right.

as leaders, starters of movements and builders of movements, thinking about that rising generation.

If, if there are like particular pieces of advice that you do find yourself giving to younger people who are trying to help that, uh, long arc of history bend a lot faster towards justice, if there's things that you'd like to share.

If you're talking about, um, Young business people, um, to, um, to follow your heart, you know, to, um, not start a business because you think it, it'll make money for you, but rather to start a business because it's you, it's what you love doing.

Not that you don't have to worry about what will make a profit because you do. Uh, but I think a lot of people make mistakes of, uh, choosing a business, um, Uh, because they think it will be profitable, uh, but they don't really enjoy it. So I think that we really have to enjoy our businesses and believe in them, uh, to, to be truly fulfilled.

It does make it much easier to get up and say, good morning, beautiful business, if you actually care and find that business beautiful. Exactly. Elizabeth, anything, anything from your perspective?

Working on the ability to, um, hold. And so this would be true for a business leader or, or anyone, you know, really, um, embracing the urgency.

So, you know, what you were talking about, Judy, about, you know, the urgency of the issues that we're facing today and the long arc that the, the You know, trusting that the work that you're doing has, um, ripple effects that you don't know about. And so, when it's feeling not fulfilling or will, will it ever really make a difference, um, just to keep working at it and trusting that, um, that there are things that will emerge that are bigger than we understand.

So. You know, when I think about the lunch that I had with you, Judy, and everything that emerged from, from that, you know, that we can see more as we're older and see sort of those arcs, um, just trusting that, that that

will emerge. I've got to say, if there's anything, anything to be taken from today, it's that, it's that showing up, doing the work, deciding what it is that you want to do.

And, you know, yeah, there's one way that I could say, you know, you all are lucky to be in the rooms at the beginning of these movements. And then it's also very, very clear that there's reasons that you're in those rooms. And that's that you, you want to be there. You asked to be there and you show up at every opportunity.

to do the work and try to drive change. I just want to thank both of you for being so generous with your time and taking on this crazy idea of having this conversation with the three of us together. It's been awesome for me. So thank you both.

Thanks for inviting us.

Um, yeah, me too. I'm so glad. Uh, I just want to say it wouldn't be a podcast if we didn't just give a chance to, um, offer people opportunity to like, learn a little bit more about us.

So Judy is besides, uh, is judywix. com still the best way for people to find out what you're up to?

Yeah, I have to say that I have to refresh in my website. I'm a little behind on it. Uh, but, uh, yes, uh, JudyWicks. com is the way to check in with what I'm up to.

And, um, Elizabeth, is there anything beyond, and I'll make sure that these are in our show notes, but is there anything beyond StrategyArts.

com? Are there other places that we should look for you?

Um, StrategyArts. com is the best place. LinkedIn is another place that I'm active, personally. So, those two.

On Facebook too. Right now I'm very active on Facebook. I'm not always, but

I'm truly grateful to Elizabeth Guman and Judy Wicks for giving so much of their time.

sharing so much of their stories and just, I don't know, just being so interesting. I really enjoyed myself. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Mission Story Slam podcast half as much as I did. So I want to remind you, we are about a week away from Mission Story Slam 10. Theme is The Message. It's Tuesday night, June 4th at National Mechanics.

Tickets are selling out. So get over to MissionStorySlam. org and grab them soon. And, in the meantime, you can find us at the website, MissionStorySlam. org, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram. So, don't forget, besides reaching out and saying hi, share the podcast. Share the links to the next Story Slam.

Just be a sharing person. We're all part of this do gooder community. And, uh, yeah. Letting people know about it does us some good. So, Mission Story Slam podcast is produced by Dave Winston. The pod is brought to you by PWP Video. We are a video with a mission. And you can find us at pwpvideo. com. So, until I slide back in your podcast feed, I shall remain Michael Schweizermer, and I really look forward to sharing the next story behind the story with you

soon.