Next up in your podcast feed is the Mission Story Slam podcast, which is brought to you by PWP Video. I'm Michael Schweissheimer. I'm the executive producer at PWP Video, the Mission Story Slam, and someone who has recently returned from a pilgrimage to my all time favorite store that I'd never set foot in in person.

Archie McPhee. It was as super awesome as I ever could have hoped. And speaking of super awesome, Mission Story Slam 10, with the theme The Message, is just a mere couple weeks away. So head over to missionstorieslam. org and grab your tickets right now. We're going to be back at National Mechanics. It's the evening of June 4th.

The theme is The Message. Speaking of things to look forward to, I've been looking forward to today's episode for weeks. Because, kind of like they used to say in the 80s on TV, this is going to be a very special episode. As a matter of fact, it is so special, it's requiring two episodes. So, here's the deal.

For the first time, not only do we have a storyteller as our guest, but we have the subject of her story. And I could go on about both of them, but instead I'm just going to let the story introduce them both. To you.

Thank you. Um, I'm Elizabeth Guman with Strategy Arts, and I'm here telling this story because I love Michael and PWP and what you're working to create here.

And I've never told a story before, so I'm nervous. So, moving right along, um, when I thought about that theme, and I thought about what, what PWP is doing here, and creating a community of people who are trying to work towards impact, I thought of a moment, um, in my life where I was moving right along, and it was a lunch that I had with Judy Wicks.

Um, but to kind of set the stage, I have to go back a little bit, And tell you, um, a little bit of background. And that is that, um, I went to business school in the early 80s. And the reason I chose to go to business school in the early 80s was because when I was, uh, growing up, my dad was a banker for a small town bank in Westchester, Pennsylvania.

And as a little girl, I would go, um, run errands with him during Saturdays and we'd go to, you know, buy a refrigerator, go to the hardware store and those kinds of things. And, you know, they all knew my dad and they would tell me how much they appreciated how he had lent them money and did things so that they could start their business and grow their business.

And I just saw this network of respect and care and, um, and how these businesses were and then enabled to serve the community. And I was really enthralled by that, and that's what I wanted to be a part of. So I went to business school. And as you can guess, in the early 80s, that is not what business school was about.

Business, my colleagues, really nice people, but really what they wanted was to get big, high paying jobs in big corporations, and the coveted jobs were like those management tracks in the big corporations. So that was kind of the beginning of sort of a stuckness or, or a dissonance that I was experiencing.

Um, and that dissonance just lasted for a while. I had other things that distracted me. I got my first job as a tech startup in a company in Valley Forge. I learned that what I really liked doing was running meetings and, and training and, um, adult, uh, learning development. I, um, started a family. I started my first business.

I was a freelance consultant. Um, So all these things kind of distracted me and the dissonance was there. You know, I wasn't part of that community that cared about, um, business being a force for good, um, but you know, enough other things were going on in my life. And then there came a point in where my husband, um, left his full time job and was able to work with me for a few years and be a part time at home dad.

And that gave me space to be able to, um, kind of think more about my work and what I wanted to do. And in that space, that dissonance, that stuckness kind of showed up. And I was able to pay more attention to it. And I was like, what am I going to do about this? I'm not, the reason I got into this work, like I'm not there.

I'm not connected to that community. And so we researched a little bit, the kind of up and coming thing was corporate social responsibility. My husband, Peter went to a conference in New York city about corporate social responsibility. And he's like, this is it. This is like, You know, what you want, your community, but it was like people from all over the country.

And I really wanted that, like, local connection. And so he asked somebody, you know, who's about this in Philadelphia? And they said Judy Wicks, White Dog Cafe. So he got home, he called Judy and said, you know, can we meet? And Judy said yes. And so she invited us to lunch and we went to lunch in the white dog cafe.

And, um, we were, if you've been there, well, I don't know if it's still there now, but we were in the piano lounge and so we're in this booth with red velvet seats and there's the baby grand piano there and talking to Judy Wicks. And before I went, I had done some research about Judy. Because I hadn't known about her before.

And I was like, super intimidated. Like, this woman has done amazing things. So I'm sitting there at lunch like why is she having lunch with us? I don't know, but we are and she was telling us about her vision for getting a community of people together Who really care about business being a force for good in?

Philadelphia and I and I was like, well, this is this is what I was looking for. This is it And so, you know, she told us about her plans and I just thought, I just don't think I fit in here. Like, I'm suburban, I'm like, I, I don't, I'm not like kind of the activist person Judy is, but her vision really fit with my vision.

And so, There was this moment of decision of do I kind of push back my, past my intimidation and do I get myself out of this stuckness and move? Um, and so I decided to, to take her up on her invitation and I went to this first meeting that she invited me to. It was a group of people who cared about the same things Judy cared about.

And that group of people then became the board of directors for the Sustainable Business Network, that started up the Sustainable Business Network. Um, I then had the opportunity to co chair the Sustainable Business Network with Judy a few years later. Um, in the meantime, I had met a colleague who was doing similar business, and I went from being a solo consultant to being a business partner, and we started Strategy Arts.

As co chair of SBN, I learned about B Corps. I met the founders of, as Judy said, Um, they were starting the B Corp movement, and we became a founding B Corp. And so that lunch, like, started this whole movement for me that allowed me to create or kind of get to this point of realizing this community that I had built.

Looked for back when I started business school, and I'm really grateful for that moment of having that lunch with Judy and hearing about her vision and then making that decision to move along out of my stuckness out of my dissonance and, um, Be able to be part of this community here where I'm with human beings who care what I care about and who are looking to have businesses and all organizations really focus on being human and and embracing humanity and creating businesses as being a force for good.

And I hope I can continue to move along in that process.

I am thrilled to welcome my friend Elizabeth

an

Goodman to the podcast along with her friend and someone I consider the godmother of sustainable business movement, Judy Wicks. Welcome to both of you. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Elizabeth, I, first of all, relistening to your story, it's funny, there's so many things that I love in it.

But The description of, like, the booth at the White Dog, and just the, like, I was there with you in that scene, and I just love how you, how you drew that out. And I had forgotten how vivid that was until this particular listen through, because I was so focused on, like, the themes and the stuff you were doing with Judy.

It's really good storytelling. Thank you! I'm really glad that you decided that you could fit that story into the theme. And I think it's also really cool that we're here talking just a few weeks after the North American B Corp conference in Vancouver. And I told you at that conference how much I admire the fact that you've put yourself in rooms where so many amazing movements have started.

And you seemed, actually, really excited. Surprised by that. So I'm just kind of curious if that's simply just a little bit of imposter syndrome or if there's more to it than that for you. I'm just, yeah, it surprises me when you are surprised. I think my surprise comes from both my personality and my background.

Um, so my, my background is, you know, I grew up in, in Westchester, um, kind of, um, middle class suburban family and, um, and my parents were both, you know, good citizens and kind of the not rock the boat kind of folks. Um, so being with people like Judy and others who are, you know, let's change the world and let's start a movement, um, is just not like it's outside my comfort zone, I would say.

Um, But it resonates with my beliefs. Um, my personality is also one of not necessarily being like an early adopter. Uh, so that also is, yeah. So that also is kind of plays into it. Um, but I think it's the resonating with the beliefs that, that has me. Um, challenge myself to say, if this is what I believe, then, uh, then I need to put up with that discomfort.

Judy, I'm curious, did you ever hear, like, some version of this story from Elizabeth before? Like, kind of outside of this context? Or is this the first time you're sort of hearing her recount her perspective on when you met? You know, I, I can't remember. Um, I mean, I remember the, the time we met very clearly.

Uh, I even remember the table where we sat. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I of course didn't know at the time that the person I was meeting would become a leader, uh, in the sustainable business. Organization and the network as well as the movement. Um, and, uh, you know, it was funny cause I, uh, she appeared a little to me like the, the church lady and, and Saturday night live.

That's so funny. That's a great description. The first time you'll, and last you'll ever be compared to Dana Carvey

I'm sorry. Yeah. But so she appeared a little like the church lady. Yeah. But there, but you know, the fact that I remember so clearly meeting, you know, Elizabeth and Peter that day, where were you sitting, the room, everything. Um, I, I think reflects, you know, the, the, uh, the, the strength of our relationship, you know, that I remember that and, and how I honor, uh, honor our relationship and what we've done together.

Were you nervous at all to share the story from Mission StorySlam with Judy, or is that kind of natural for you to share stuff? Oh, yeah. One, I was like, do I have all the details right? Um, so I think more, you know, telling a story that involves someone else is, um, is, um, you know, I was just curious when Judy heard it, uh, if she would think that, um, she would remember it differently, which I guess is okay, but that definitely crossed my mind.

Um, Yeah, and then I guess we've never talked about, you know, my impressions of, you know, how I was showing up that day. Um, I don't know that that particularly made me feel nervous, that part of it made me feel nervous. Um, but, um, that's more what I think is interesting to explore. Judy, I'm going to go back.

So I read your, uh, your book. Good, good morning, beautiful business back when it came out. Um, and I do definitely recommend it and I will make sure that we've got a link in the show notes to the Chelsea green publishing page so that people can find a copy if they haven't read it yet. Cause it's awesome.

Great. Of course, uh, but in the, in the preface itself, I was going back kind of thumbing through a bit, but in the preface you, you wrote, as you're sort of setting the stage, uh, time at your life on Sansom Street, you said that, uh, I would have been surprised as anyone to learn that I would someday start a restaurant there and raise my family in a home above it.

And I would have been even more surprised to learn that the restaurant would gain international acclaim as a socially responsible business, serving farm fresh local food, take me to political hotspots around the world, and play a powerful role in building what has come to be known as the local living economy movement.

So, I'm just kind of curious, I thought, when I read that, it sort of, Reminded me a bit of the surprise that Elizabeth was talking about that she had in terms of being able to be in these rooms at the start of these movements. I'm just wondering if there is any parallel there for you in terms of the path that you ended up finding yourself on.

No, I don't think so. Um, because I, you know, I started, um, I started with my own place, you know, that I felt very comfortable in, um, and grew out from there. Uh, so, um, at the White Dog, I, I focused first on building a network of suppliers around the, the White Dog, our farmers. I guess the, the pivotal moment for me when I went from being a independent, uh, entrepreneur owning a small business to being a movement leader was when I realized that, that it wasn't enough to, uh, build a network of suppliers for the white dog.

that we were dependent on our local economy, that our farmers could not survive unless, uh, more restaurants bought from them. So while I was in a place where I was thinking, gee, this is our market niche. You know, we buy from farmers and the other restaurants don't, and this is our market niche and we're going to become famous for this.

Um, I realized that no, um, that what has to happen is that we have to cooperate with our competitors, the other restaurants together, you know, build a sustainable local economy. Um, and that point, uh, in which I moved from me to we basically, uh, was, The pivotal point for me, um, and also really moving from competition to cooperation, uh, which is not something that capitalism holds dear.

In fact, many capitalists would say that's communism when you start thinking about the communal good as opposed to, uh, building your own profit structure. You know, and I, and what led me to do that, speaking of passion, because I feel that a passion is, um, what drives us, um, it was my passion for the farm animals, um, in particular the pigs, because I had discovered the cruelty.

Under which, um, uh, pigs were raised, uh, in the factory farms. Um, and I went about, you know, finding a source for pasture raised, humanely raised, uh, pigs for my restaurant. Uh, so that I could say, Oh, all of our meat, um, is pasture raised. All of it is humanely raised. Um, and eventually all of it is local. And then I realized that if I really did love the pigs, And I love the environment that was being polluted by the factory farmers.

And I love the customers who were unknowingly eating meat that was full of antibiotics and from animals that were really tortured. That what I would do was to work to build a, a whole local economy that was relationship based and heart based, and that's really the motivation that came about to start SBN.

You know, I started by asking the farmer who was bringing in a pig a week, buy a whole pig a week, and that's better for the farmer, better for the animal, and so on, to buy the whole pig. The whole thing, instead of just the pork chops or the bacon or whatever. Um, and, um, so I asked him, uh, would you like to expand your business?

And he's in deliver, you know, pastries, pork to more restaurants in the city. And he said, yes, I said, what's holding you back? And he said he needed a refrigerator truck, uh, to, so he could deliver a lot of meat at the same time. So I loaned him 30, 000 to buy the truck so that he could deliver pork to my competitors, you know?

So it was this idea of, uh, of cooperation, um, and sharing our wisdom and, and our resources and our time. with each other. It was that feeling really, with which I started SBN. I think that it really permeated the organization in the early stages. You know, this idea that, uh, that we're in this together, that rather than being competitive amongst each other, uh, that we are partners, you know, in building a sustainable local economy.

I want to back up for a second, because I know you said that a lot of capitalists would refer to that kind of collaboration as being more communist, but I, I really don't. I mean, First of all, White Dog Cafe, you were successful enough that you could loan a farmer 30, 000. Like, there's, you know, there are, I think that you and a lot of other businesses that have come along in a similar vein, not even in the restaurant field, have shown that collaboration and that kind of caring for our customers can be very profitable.

Oh, sure. Yeah. And I, you know, that's really what, um, the whole idea of measuring our success by the triple bottom line. of people, planet, and profit, I always like to say a quadruple bottom line and adding place. Okay. That's the whole idea that we don't have to sacrifice profits, um, and our quality of life or whatever, in order to share.

That it is possible, uh, to be profitable, um, at the same time that we also are serving nature and serving our community, um, serving our employees. And that's, at the White Dog, that was our mission was to serve, to serve. I realized that the purpose of business is to serve, that money is simply a tool. It's really about our relationships, you know, with our employees, with our clients.

Um, suppliers with our customers and with nature itself. Um, and so that's another kind of principle for me is, you know, is, is that business is there to serve. I think that what I tried to do with the white dog, every time I heard about a sustainable practice, I tried to implement it. Uh, and show that you can do this, whether it's, say, signing up for 100 percent renewable energy, that, that you can do that and still make a profit, that you can pay a living wage and still make a profit, uh, that you can buy local organic food and still make a profit.

So that was really what I was trying to show. It was funny, when I retired, Uh, and sold my business, uh, I was saying to my girlfriend, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm now I'm only one person. Uh, and my girlfriend says, Judy, you've always only been one person. So, and so, you know, without, without my, my restaurant, you know, as my vehicle for social change, I, I didn't realize that I could still do that.

So once I sold the business, I continued my work, uh, and you know, with my own house modeling in my own house. You know, getting rid of my natural gas, putting solar on the roof. Uh, you know, I could, I could model that as a citizen and have impact as well. It's not just about business in terms of showing that you can do something and still make a profit.

It's also about, uh, an ordinary person, uh, you know, not, not necessarily a business leader can also do the right thing and still It's not, you're not making a sacrifice, um, to work in harmony with nature and, you know, develop your community relations. That is a good thing. Right, it all can end up being tied together, right.

Yeah, and so, you know, I want to make it fun. So that's part of, you know, my whole, you know. Way of being is to show the joy, um, of, of doing the right thing. The collective joy we all felt at SBN. We had a collective joy, um, in building this local economy together. Um, you know, this makes me cry to think of it.

Well, I'm not here to make you cry, Judy. Okay. But I'm also, but you, you know, you, you. Yeah, but it's very, um. I'm so glad that, that it moves you that way. Yeah. It was a joyful experience. So going all the way back to a question I asked a few minutes ago, I had mentioned I was wondering if you had ever been, truly felt surprised about where you ended up, and I'm not surprised that you really weren't, because I do really think of you as, as a leader who sees a problem and then just starts a movement to correct it.

You know, you mentioned this idea of the imposter syndrome. Uh, I'll tell you when, when I felt that way. Um, I was invited to speak at some big conference. I think it was the Green Festival. And I was. I was by myself and I was supposed to give my speech the next morning and I couldn't get myself together to write the speech.

I kept thinking like, I'm going to be speaking on the same stage with Jim Hightower and Medea Benjamin and all these heroes, you know, um, and I'm not worthy. You know, I'm just not as good as them. And what do I think I'm doing? You know, uh, speaking on the same stage with these heroes of mine. And I got so into that, um, imposter syndrome.

I never knew what that was called that I was immobilized. I couldn't get my speech done. So, um, I remembered this coach I once had who talked about being a good witch. And I thought, so I, I got into the bathtub and I thought, I'm going to go into the bathtub and I'm going to take a bath. And when I get out of that bathtub, I'm going to emerge as a good witch, uh, with, with, with the power to do good, um, and believe in myself.

And it worked. I got out of the bathtub and I just felt powerful. I can still remember, you know, calling the Uber or whatever to go to the conference and just feeling strong, uh, that I was a good witch. I hear the sound of a lot of baths being drawn right now. Yeah. I think there's a lot of good witches about to emerge from a fresh tub.

Right. So it was interesting that I, in my own little world. know, in my restaurant where I felt safe because I I grew it from scratch, you know, to be bigger and bigger. And so I was very familiar and comfortable. I belong there and felt, but when I needed to make the step to become a national leader, it was hard for me, you know, I'm there.

Who do you think you are? Go back to, go back to the small town where you grew up. I mean, I grew up in the same kind of way Elizabeth did. And then, you know, basically, um, WASP all white. Christian, um, small town, Republican, you know, community. My dad was a Republican lawyer and we grew up in the same kind of community.

I think what changed me was the Vietnam war. It made me question, question authority, um, and, uh, not, not believe everything I was taught. Yeah. I want to talk in terms of emerging as a leader and starting so many movements. Yes, you've always been only one person, but you've also have had dedicated groups of people who've been willing to join you along the way.

So what is the importance of someone like Elizabeth to you? entering your life when she did, like, as you were starting Sustainable Business Network and that relationship with her that's now over two decades old and, and the things that you've done together. Absolutely critical. I mean, you know, um, it's really about, um, energy and how we, we create energy that attracts others.

I don't know how to describe it. Uh, you know, when, when you start, Um, working with people, bringing people together, there's a certain energy, uh, and it attracts more people and more people and so on. Uh, and Elizabeth was definitely a part of that phenomenon in a sense of, you know, like minded people when they start to collaborate, that we start to grow our, our energy field, um, and that attracts more people to join.

One of the things that I saw, you know, in the sustainability movement was the silos that we were working in, um, that, you know, there were people working in food that were doing really great things, but they had never really heard about renewable energy. Um, and there were people working in renewable energy that were doing really great things.

Or like the building space seemed to ignore the food space, like they re, big, big silos. Yeah. So how, how do you get the green building people to, um, Um, invest locally and the local investors to eat local food and the food people to, you know, think about alternative transportation or whatever, how do you, how do you join all these silos of good people into a common vision, you know, of what our economy could be and should be.

That was kind of my, my theory, um, uh, you know, identifying, uh, people in these various silos and inviting them to join the board, um, so that we had all these perspectives, um, of what a local economy is and the elements of it. Um, and then getting each of those, um, what I call the building blocks, uh, building blocks of the local economy, um, and getting each of us to teach each other.

So we'd have a program and all the food people would do a panel about local food. Uh, and then the energy people would do a panel about energy. So we started to, uh, teach each other. Also, always to, Ask how many people in the room have purchased, um, something from another business in this room, you know, and to always keep asking that to make sure that people are thinking about how can I buy from my other, my local folks that we start to knit together.

the fabric of a local economy. So Elizabeth, I'm really curious. Judy is always, um, a, a ball of energy and ideas at a, at an amazing rate. Um, but you yourself are. Like such a significant mover of goals and getting things done. And, but not just the worker bee, like what, what is it, what was it like to be early and on that founding board and then be a co chair with Judy?

Like, what was that work like when you get to work, not just with someone like Judy, but to be early on in that movement? Yeah. Especially for someone like me, who is not an early adopter, um, Um, so it perpetuated probably that, that, uh, imposter syndrome kept creeping up. I guess, especially listening to you, Judy, one of the things that, um, I think I was really drawn to was when you talked about your vision, you, it has substance to it.

And I could picture, because we do. You know, my skill set is planning and strategy, like I could picture, okay, here's how to put it into place and the energy that that Judy talked about of the people that were gathered together, um, collaboration is another piece that's really important to me. So picturing, how do we set up structures and processes to support that kind of collaboration?

That just felt like a natural fit for me of, um, of ways that I could contribute. I think that's part of it is sort of figuring out like, well, how do I fit in here? And, and I could see possibilities of that early on. Do you feel like you, Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, Judy. Well, I was just going to say that I think that, you know, Elizabeth's gifts to the organization really did surround helping to create structure and therefore, you know, longevity that, uh, the organization could not just be built around idealism and ideas and camaraderie that we needed to have structure, you know, for government and process and so on.

Um, and that's, that's something that is not my forte, uh, but it was something that Elizabeth brought to the organization. I remember the conversation when you called me to ask me to co chair. I don't know if that's one that you remember. I was in a meeting and on a break, you know, I was running a meeting, I was doing work and on a break you, you know, you had called, I called you back and I kind of remember the room I was in when you asked if I would consider doing co chair.

And, you know, when you're, When you taught, like one of the things that I think helped me move past my imposter syndrome was that you respected and, and my work and my skill set, and you can name it, like in that call you said, would you consider being co chair and here's why, and you said exactly what you just said, and I was like, oh, that makes sense.

Without that why, I think I would have been like, yeah. afraid. But when you can tell people, you know, here's where I see it fit and where your skill set is important and why I think this will work. Um, That gave me the confidence to accept. Yeah. And I think it was, uh, you know, on, on my part, um, I trusted you, uh, that was so key, I think, and I don't know why I trusted you, but, but I mean, I, I don't know how to say it in words, but, but I, I just did.

Obviously it comes from the alignment of our values and how I viewed you as a human being, uh, that you were somebody that I could trust and that I had total trust because I, uh, sharing leadership with another person is not an easy thing to do. Uh, I, I could, I understood what my shortcomings were. Uh, and how our combination, our partnership, um, would be stronger, uh, than it would be if I were just by myself, you know, I, I trusted to relinquish some of my power to you, uh, because I believed in you.

So I think that, you know, it was such the right decision because I think the next phase of SBN was to become its own organization that I had incubated it at the White Dog Cafe Foundation. Um, and then. We needed to let the bird fly, the baby bird fly on its own. And that was a hard thing for me to do as the mother, as the mother bird, to have the baby fly from the nest.

Uh, and Elizabeth was instrumental in having that happen, which needed to happen. And it was just too emotional for me. And Elizabeth was someone I trusted to guide the baby bird into its next phase of life. Someone's got to teach it how to fly, or at least give it that push, I guess, right? It's tough stuff to do.

PwP has been a member of SBN for, not since opening or founding, but for quite a while, I think like 08 or something like that. So I know some of the players, and I know you've had some amazing leaders, Go through SBN, both board and executive directors when, when the two of you were co chairing, it sounds like, did you have an executive director yet?

Or is it something that you guys did together? It was hard because Leanne, was Leanne the first executive director? Do you remember if Leanne was the executive director when you, when you came Elizabeth? I don't, I don't remember. Miriam was there and um, and hiring Leanne was one of the early things that I was a part of.

Uh huh. Which was, which was a, Also a defining moment for me. Yeah. It was a defining moment for me because, um, you know, early in my career I had done some hiring, but then I was a solo practitioner for a really long time. So going through that process was a learning experience for me. You know, we did a search, we, um, you know, had all the candidates, um, So that was, that was, it was also very collaborative.

Like we had a team, it was fun. Um, we, hiring was fun. That's cool. Yeah. We did. Well, that's cause you work with, you got to work with Judy. Like, this is one of the things that I continue in my life to try to remind myself, but Judy was always good at, you know, we, SBN, we were meeting in Juney's living room and, um, I, we did interviews for a couple days, you know, I think two days, I spent the night at, somebody else hosted me for the night and so I got to spend the night with somebody in, in their home and we stayed up late chatting and, you know, just, it was just, uh, you know, there was good food, a lot of laughs.

That's the Julie you were talking about earlier, I think, Judy. All right, I hope you've been enjoying this conversation absolutely as much as I have. It is definitely too much and too interesting to try to just cut it down into one episode, so we're going to be back releasing in about a week the second episode.

We'll continue to talk about the sustainability and B Corp movements and what's in store for them, how we're trying to get young people involved in those movements, and um, yeah, it's definitely continues to be as interesting as this. So. Don't forget, we're just a couple weeks away from Mission Story Slam 10 with the theme The Message, so it's June 4th at National Mechanics, and I do think it's going to sell out, so I recommend that you head over to missionstorieslam.

org soon so you can grab your tickets. Now. Mission Story Slam podcast is produced by Dave Winston and actually he stepped in to edit these special episodes. Podcast is brought to you by PWP video. We are video with a mission. You can find us at PWP video. com until then, I'm going to remain Michael Schweizerheimer and I'm going to look forward to sharing the rest of this story behind the story with you that.